Every year, students flood the job market, networking, applying to, and figuring out their way around huge industries, in efforts to score their dream internship or job. This month with the RMA, we are interviewing one such student, who landed an internship at a renowned company in a bustling and growing industry.
We sat down with Christine Ung, a Marketing student at TRSM, and spoke to her about her days in her current product design internship at the Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment company (MLSE).
“I’m a product design intern at MLSE. Product design, meaning: I was originally looking for a job in UX (user experience) design, which is essentially designing digital experiences and making sure that it’s user-friendly for people, and really putting users and people who interact with the product first, then designing around them, usually on the digital side.”
Before ending up at MLSE, Christine did graphic design all through high school, dabbled in print, and learned web design, which is when she realized that she really liked designing web interfaces, and decided to make that the niche that she would focus on. Sitting on the subway one day with words like UX design floating around in her thoughts, she chose her path for the next few years by deciding that she wanted to learn more about what UX and UI really was.
What does the Product Management process look like?
“There’s an entire process that goes around that, you’re in an agile environment and you’re using design thinking to solve problems, there’s a lot of buzz words, but essentially you’re working with your team, which consists of product managers and engineers. The product managers deal with the other stakeholders, and other departments, and defining the problem we’re trying to solve, and then break up the problem into more bite-sized pieces, which then the designers take on and look into designing solutions for.
A big part of product design and UX design is actually speaking to the user, doing research beforehand, and then making this whole process simpler, to solve the problems that actually are problems. At the end to validate that your solutions make sense, you’d do another interview, called user testing, to make sure they can adopt the solution. It’s a lot of fun.”
Day to day, you’re surrounded by innovation and change and all these amazing things, from your perspective, what does a day at MLSE look like?
“Day to day is pretty flexible with hours; we have a stand up at 9:45, to ‘synchronize our watches’ for the day — ideally you talk about what you did yesterday and what you’re doing today, what’s on your plate, how can the team help, and if there’s anything stopping you from reaching your goal. We go around doing that, and then we talk about tech news. It helps all the designers be on the same page every single day. Product managers have their own structure, same with engineers. So after the stand-up, we’ll go for coffee in the cafeteria […] then we’ll go back to the office and start working.
As the intern, I’m working on many projects, and it’s up to me to decide where I want to go. Sometimes you’re waiting around on maybe assets or another department, and so you have to juggle your time. It’s very ‘you make it your own’ but that also comes from asking and knowing what you want. They’re really great culturally, the leadership is incredible, in that we have channels dedicated to our goals and how we can make them tangible and [leadership can] create those opportunities for you. One of mine was to shadow a product designer and do interviews. I was working on a project that didn’t require user interviews but another did, so they swapped me out for the product manager and I shadowed the product designer on that project and that was for an app relaunch which is pretty cool.”
How did you find your internship at MLSE?
“I was really lucky, I was the TRMC photographer, and the Senior Director of Digital of MLSE was at a panel discussion, so I was just photographing and tuning in and listening because it was really interesting as well, and the guy seemed genuinely interesting. I was like ‘ok I don’t follow sports, but I would love to work with this guy’, and he said something significant about innovation like “it’s easy to google something and copy someone else’s solution, but what’s hard is coming up with something unique and constructive, right?” If you’d asked someone 5000 years ago what they wanted, they would have said faster horses, but they wouldn’t have mentioned anything about cars.
After every conference people do LinkedIn posts, so I took a different approach. I thought to myself “what do I want to see on my LinkedIn page, and how can I do something that’s not fluffy”. I had my notes on my phone, so I went ahead and picked a few that had really spoken to me about what I was going through at the time, and I put up a Linkedin post; ‘A Look Into My TRMC Notes’. That caught the attention of the Senior Director, so he added me on Linkedin.”
She had managed to differentiate herself.
“This was all with no intention of trying to get a job, so when he added me I was like “sure, I’ll probably take advantage of it at some point in time” but my friends said no, message him now, so I did. I said I was really flattered with the invite, and asked if he would hop on a call with me and give me some guidance as to how I can set myself up in this industry, he said yeah. He actually told me that he had seen my portfolio and my profile and all, and he said ‘we actually might have space for you’. I literally ran to my room, jumping on the bed, air-punching, like woah this doesn’t happen every day.”
Here’s our first tip: It’s those tiny follow up messages with professionals that can get you coffee chats, and can get you a long way. This is the power of networking.
A lot of people find their jobs through networking. Here’s what Christine said:
“What I found was that the higher and more senior that people get, the busier they are, so if you can get a 10 minute phone call with someone, take it! And there are times when it’s probably more appropriate to ask for a phone call rather to get them in person, and they’ll be more likely to give you a yes.”
Job hunting is super frustrating and the online system is even harder. The hardest thing is getting yourself through the filtration process, like how do you do that? And how do you show your drive and personality and passion?”
Here’s what Christine would say to those job hunters who are similarly frustrated:
“Truthfully you need to start reaching out to people on Linkedin, asking for coffee, and being transparent in the way that you act. Most of the time people are very responsive to it, and even though it’s always going to be super nerve-wracking, and a lot of people say this, not enough people execute on this advice; I still get anxious going into coffee shops. [It’s the buildup, you overthink it so much], but it’s something that you gotta do. But it’s so important to go on these coffee chats, because then you can ask them exactly what they look for, what they would tell themselves at 20 years old, and ask for advice. And feedback too, another thing for me was I don’t know how I compared to other candidates, and so I get the chance to ask.”
Here comes tip #2: Grow your network and talk, talk, talk to everyone.
“I’ve started asking for, if the time seems right, to edit my resume. It kills 2 birds with 1 stone; you’re getting feedback on your resume BY the people that are hiring, and you’re getting your resume in front of them! Alternatively, ask them to introduce you to 2 other people.”
Let’s jump over to the RMA. Christine was the VP of Marketing in 2018–2019. She says yes, that role helped her in many ways; with networking practice, with leadership skills, and with managing her communication methods. Here’s how she laid it all out;
“TRSM is a big school, and it’s unlikely that unless you plan it, you’re not gonna be in the same class as familiar faces, and even if you are, people come from such different backgrounds, with different values, so it’s hard to connect with people in a class. So being a part of the RMA, everyone has a common interest, that is Marketing, and you’re making friends with people and keeping in touch with people who are going to be supportive to you as you all grow. [You’re all relatable to one another], you’re all in a student group, you’re probably passionate, driven, like-minded, and supporting one another.
Networking is always intimidating, something about being a part of the behind the scenes and organizing team makes conferences a lot less intimidating, because now you’re wearing the hat of being the host […] it makes you stop thinking about how daunting it is, and once you’re in that mode of talking to people it gets easier. I genuinely believe networking is not really about what can i gain from you, more about making genuine connections and making friends. You don’t help people with the expectation of getting something in return, you help them because they’re your friends and you want to see them grow. A piece of advice my boss gave me is exactly that, even if you’re not the host, wear the hat like you are, ask people if they’ve had the chance to eat or drink and then go from there.
Leading a team was really fun. I think my leadership style is very laid back. The RMA can sometimes get very busy and hectic, so I had to learn how to manage people when they’re stressed and help them relax — to be able to acknowledge the faces behind the work. That is what leaders are supposed to be. Everyone is there and volunteering their time, [to keep them motivated] you have to make sure people are getting what they want to get out of it, whether that is learning experiences, or the ability to be creative and experiment with the outlet, or have a good time around people they enjoy. You want to create that environment for people and make sure they’re getting what they want. That was a lot of fun and made me more socially and emotionally intelligent. We worked through some stressful times, but you’re a team and you have to get the work done. If someone’s not pulling their weight, I have to pick it up, and vice versa, I’m sure there were times when someone else may have had to pull my weight, but at the end of the day, you’re a team.
In terms of communication, when you’re working with others, not everyone has the same approach. Choosing your words carefully and being aware of the connotations of the words is important to keep in mind when working towards the direction of solving any problem, so that we can continue to work towards our team goal. It’s important to be able to have tough conversations, be diplomatic and receive tough conversations diplomatically and maintaining emotions. I was working with different personalities and people who came from different places and values, and I had to be able to motivate those people.”
I felt that a lot of the advice that Christine gave was unique and I’d never heard before, but some of it I had heard before, and I suspect that others had too. The thing is, I’ve rarely seen anyone act on any of the advice I heard.
“A huge part of this is that a large number of people hear this advice, but there’s that 1 person out of 30, 50, or more that actually act on it, and it’s those baby steps that go far, and if you’re celebrating each accomplishment, those tiny successes can amount to something.
The biggest advice for marketing students looking for an internship or job is: you know how to market stuff, just market YOURSELF. I realized that I’m doing all this social media marketing for companies, so why haven’t I started doing this for myself? Represent yourself properly.”
RMA: Your brand is your business too.
Christine’s internship as a Product Design Intern at MLSE has been extended from the end of August to December, and she continues to gain more industry knowledge and experience.
The Ted Rogers School of Management offers Product Management Bootcamps, hosted by the Business Career Hub, that are open to everyone. In addition to that, there are tons of opportunities and resources that TRSM offers to students to build their resume, experiences, and skill sets, including opportunities to study abroad, and get involved within the business school.
Written by: Marzia Abdulla, Annie Limbana
Edited by: Jenny Bang